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Post by Tyler Vigneault on Jun 29, 2015 0:10:58 GMT
1. Objectively, Socrates was condemned to death for not conforming to the standard religious practices of his era and country. He instead questioned the world around him in an unorthodox method and professed his hypotheses to the youth (How Socrates Died, 6). Subjectively, Socrates death was the direct result of the conflict between science and religion. His views were controversial and to many religious people of his era were directly insulting and defaming their long-established gods. The people viewed it as destructive to both their history and culture and sought retribution. The “icing on the cake” was that the youth were Socrates’ main audience and had begun to adopt his views. To Socrates, it was not a crime and in many of his defenses he seems composed and logically-driven. His accusers and persecutors both seem to be driven more by emotion and anger than any logical force. Much like described in the video “Plato’s Allegory of the Cave”, Socrates’ persecutors were much like the men shackled in caves. They had lived their lives seeing only what was in front of them and not questioning it or even being able to question why, society of this time condemned it. Because of this, they felt it natural and just to condemn Socrates to death.
2. There was and still is a conflict between science and religion because of both the current and past limits of human knowledge, the societal reliance on certainty, and the culture imposed by religion. As demonstrated in “The Limits Of Science”, the limits of the human mind are the limits of human understanding. Meaning that as humans currently are, there are tangible limits to what it can grasp and explain in this universe. The somewhat satirical comments on quantum mechanics within “The Great Mystery” (page 10), describe this dilemma in detail and provide an introduction into the rest of the book. “I think the overriding reason that many of us find the previous analogy persuasive is because we intuit or know from our own experiences that when one is in a higher state of awareness it makes the waking state look like a dismal and shadowy dream” (Lane, 27). Society often disregards these higher states of awareness or spiritual experiences as hallucinations that are created by the same parts of the brain that create dreams and settle for the “certainty” of the real world. Culture also creates a need to not question religion and is often imposed harshly by family or other societal factors. Those who question are labeled as heretics and cause grief and offense to those who are religious.
Tyler Vigneault
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Post by Colin Guthrie on Jun 29, 2015 2:52:24 GMT
Week I EssayQuetions:
Colin Guthrie
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates was put on trial accused of corrupting the youth of Athens and denying the gods of Athens. He was a great teacher, sophist, born in Athens in 427 B.C. He did not write any of his teachings down. Instead, his student, Plato, recorded his lessons. So there is a description of his trial written by Plato called “The Apology of Socrates.” It is not actually an apology, but a long defense by Socrates. He was found guilty and sentenced to death by drinking hemlock, a poison.
In the context of history, the Peloponnesian War (431 B.C. to 404 B.C.) was a battle for dominance between Sparta and Athens (Loomis 4). At the end, Athens was beaten down and opposing factions fought for power in the city. Rational thinking was developing and old ideas were being challenged. One faction was convinced that the old ways were right and should not be challenged. Another faction challenged the old ways. Socrates actually used his method of asking a simple question about the meaning of a word to teach critical thinking. This was seen as challenging the old ways and he was put on trial. His accuser, Melitus, says he does not believe in any gods at all. Socrates denies this (MSAC 40). Regarding corrupting the youth, Socrates states he questions and exposes false wisdom. Socrates saw himself as a gift of the deity to Athens to keep the citizens on a path of virtue (MSAC 45). He saw himself like a gadfly stinging a horse. He says if they condemn him to death “you will pass the rest of your life in sleep, unless the deity, caring for you should send someone else to you (MSAC 45). “
So why was Socrates sentenced to death? People are resistant to change. Unfortunately for Socrates, the people who’s beliefs he challenged were rigid thinkers, and powerful. And he would not abandon his ideas. He used his own death to send a message. The message was to stand for truth, not tradition, when tradition hinders progress.
2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion?
Those who are lulled into the false belief that they know, can’t handle the feeling of doubt. This actually applies to those who are convinced science is “the way” as well as those who see religion as “the way.” One reason there is a conflict between these two is the perception that science and religion are opposites. Also people may have the false belief that a person must choose one or the other. The MSAC Philosophy Group’s book The Great Mystery: Matter vs. Spirit points out the conflict is based in a definition of the word “matter” (MCAC 1). People may think of science as the study of matter, with matter defined as a lifeless concrete substance that has certain predictable characteristics. The film “Limits of Science” points out that humans have neuro-constraints that limit how much and what kind of information they can obtain. Finally, people tend to think of ideas, scientific and religious, as absolute rather than evolving. With increased knowledge and awareness, understanding increases. The MSAC group points out that knowledge and understanding evolve. The example of understanding matter from Democritus saying it is made up of small invisible particles, Max Planck saying smaller particles of nucleus and electrons exist, to Hawking saying there are many universes shows the evolution of knowledge. Then there is the wonder humans experience at the unknowable about matter and how that is similar to what might be called spiritual.
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chen
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Post by chen on Jun 29, 2015 3:33:01 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death? Being one of the greatest Greek philosophers ever known, Socrates was sentenced to death by consuming hemlock poison. The first reason why he was sentenced to execution was for impiety, which in How Socrates Died, is “that he did not believe in the gods recognized by the state (2).” The second reason for his trial, which ultimately led to his death sentence, was that “he has corrupted the Athenian youth by his teachings (2).” Meletus, Socrates’ accuser, states that he was teaching the youth to question the authority of the government. When asked to confess for his “wrong-doings”, Socrates neither tried to agree nor disagree to whether he acted upon his accusations.“ He prefers to stand upon his own integrity and innocence, uninfluenced by the fear of that imaginary evil, death (2).” With his death sentence imposed, Socrates accepts his fate and declines to escape his fate when begged by his fellow listeners. 2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion? Conflict between science and religion derive from their own separate disciplines – that science is based on the observation of facts and nature, while religion is mostly relied on faith. Because people rarely question faith, they assume a higher authority (in which most cases is God) helped reveal their own truth in humanity. However, science has come to question everything about the nature of our world and anything that isn’t factual based. In The Great Mystery, it states that “Where are we has a simple answer it appear: We don’t know (13). Because there are so many unsolved mysteries that exist, there are bound to be two sides: one who looks for answers and one who believes in the spirituality that transcends it. Since science assumes that there are no immaterial forces that exist or have existed in our universe, the conflict between the two are almost undeniable for those that may be strong devotees of either perspective. Extra Credit: What is Matter? As stated in both Matter vs Spirit and the short film provided to us, “the word matter (derived from mater)” also appears to be derived from the word “mother”. Matter, being anything that takes up space and has mass to it, is explained in the short film as having even smaller particles within them called atoms, in which the narrator explains that everything on this earth is a “reconfiguration of atoms.” Extra Credit: Response Week 1:
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates was a philosopher who had his own thoughts and chose not to conform to the beliefs of society and for that he paid the ultimate price. He was sentenced to death for two reasons. One being that he didn’t believe in the gods organized by the state and secondly because “he corrupted the Athenian youth”. His punishment was to drink poisonous hemlock which resulted in death. Although they claim he had corrupted the youth, he was merely trying to express his new way of thinking. He asked questions to find out about the knowledge that people knew or thought they knew and tried to encourage people to have their own understanding of things. Due to Socrates trying to convey his own thoughts and questions about the “what ifs, he was seen as a threat. Many people do not like change, because of the possibility of the unknown outcome. Socrates was creating that new wavelength for change in his new way of thinking and because of that society felt uncomfortable he was punished.
2. Why is there a conflict between Science and Religion?
There is a conflict between Science and Religion for some because of their views on them contradict one another. In the Great Mystery: Matter vs. Spirit, Religion is a belief that there is a higher power that causes certain occurrences and phenomena’s that are unexplainable. Where science is based on the belief that there is an answer to everything, and that everything is made up of matter. It was stated in the book, “If consciousness is not physically produced then science will not be able to explain it as such. Science will confront a border it cannot cross”. In this particular sentence I took from it, that science does not exist without spirit. Meaning that one being was created from spiritual aspects and science would not be relevant if that being hadn’t been created by the spirit itself. Although the belief of some is that they contradict one another I believe in some senses they coincide with one another.
I completely agree with your statement that the two disciplines are contradictory against each other. However, I don't necessary believe that science is based on the idea that there is an answer to everything since not everything has been answered, but more like that there are factual evidence to prove how such things work in our universe. I do like how you believe that in some sense they coincide with each other because I also agree with you on that. |
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Zhiren(Isaac) Zheng
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Post by Zhiren(Isaac) Zheng on Jun 29, 2015 4:44:19 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death? To the public, it was widely told that Socrates was accused of two charges—"one that he did not believe in the gods recognized by the State, the other that he had corrupted the Athenian youth by his teachings" (How Socrates died, 10) However, these charges were placed on Socrates by people whose reputation were challenged by Socrates. As Socrates kept searching for the truth and knowledge, he had conversation with a variety of "wise" men, who claimed themselves to be wisest. However, when he examined and questioned those politicians, poets, and artists, he found that they just fancied themselves to be wise. Politician could answer Socrates 's question and even contradict themselves; Poets "say many fine things, but they understand nothing that they say"; artist, who "excelled in the practice of his art, thought that he was very wise in other most important matters, and this mistake of theirs obscured the wisdom that they really possessed' (How Socrates died, 42). When these "wise" people found themselves "have been detected pretending to possess knowledge," Socrates became odious to them(How Socrates died, 42). Young people started to follow Socrates with the real wisdom and examine those "wise" people. Realized that their reputation was in danger, those "wise" people blamed Socrates on corrupting the youth. Even though Socrates insisted on search for the truth, his wisdom was distorted by "wise" people who actually knew nothing. Socrates 's wisdom enlightened some people, but, at the same time, put himself to death. 2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion? The reason that there was a conflict between science and religion for some people was that in their mindset, anything that violated or went against their belief is blasphemous. However, back in that time, religion spread from people to people by words. To a great extend, what people learned about their religion depended heavily on the sources that they received. But the problem is that those "wise" people who were looked up to by ordinary Athenians did not really know about the truth and science, but merely relying on their own senses. Euthyphro regarded himself as a wise man who did the right thing accusing his own father of murdering. But when he was questioned by Socrates of "what is piety, and what is impiety," what he said can all boil down to his own assumption that the god was pleased with what he did, and therefore, it was pious (How Socrates died, 42). At the end, after Socrates pointed out the contradictory statement he made, he finally realized that he did not really know what is piety and impiety. Therefore, it revealed the fact that many "wise" people equaled things that challenged their own thoughts to things that were against the religion. Apparently, because of their ignorance, on the way of searching for truth and exploring science, there would be a lot of things that differ from what they thought. Therefore, they would think science is in conflict with religion. Also, people regarded themselves to be holy and supreme. As it was mentioned in the book of The Great Mystery, when " Francis Crick say as that consciousness is just a bundle of neurons or when Patricia Churchland indicates we are just three pounds of meat," people tended to resisted this idea. They did not want to bring themselves down to the same level as other creatures. Instead of learning about the science, people would stick to their belief and put their religion above science. Therefore, this also caused the conflict between science and religion. Extra Credit: 2. Science and religion both are, at best, a cluster of theories to almost prove that something almost did this which almost started this and this and so on and so forth. Neither one gives us the answers to our questions. And, even when we take science classes and go to church and gain more knowledge about the respective topic, we seem to have even more questions. As said in "The Limits of Science" clip, "the limits of our skull limits our understanding." We can't possibly know everything because we are just not made that way and I think this also ties into the concept the more you know, the less you know. I also think science is being made the villain when some people blame it for reducing us into cells, atoms, molecules, or matter. We want to believe that we are special or transcendent and get insulted by the notion of being just matter. However, we fail to realize that being called matter can be just as special and amazing as being called to have holiness or purity. Matter is so intricate and so complex that baffles us. We are not just matter. "Even if we forego religion and spirituality and opt for a purely materialistic understanding of what surrounds us, we are still touching moment to moment a mystery that transcends our ability to understand it" (The Great Mystery, p.13). I found this a very interesting opinion and it mentioned a few points that I failed to bring up in my essay, so I would like to talk about my opinions regarding this post. First, I think neither science nor religion proved the way nature or universe exactly work. Both of them are just the assumptions that we made that will fit our interpretation of how the nature and science work. In other words, they are the imagery of our thoughts. They can and will always change as we learn more about the universe and when our view changes. That also links to my second point. I agree with your opinion that the more you know, the less you know. I believe human's understanding of the world is still at the elementary level. As we find out more and compare them to what we thought, we will realize there will be a even longer way towards the complete understanding. However, that does not necessarily mean we cannot possibly know everything. I mean as a individual, I agree. But as a combination of human intelligence, there is no limit of our understanding. It might be a very long period of time, and it will probably extend to infinity. But as I said, that does not give a boundary of our knowledge. Third, I absolutely agree that "matter can be just as special and amazing as being called to have holiness or purity". As we explore more about the cells that we are made up of, we discover that the cell itself is an incredible art, which can be as complicated as the universe. This is holy. This is pious. Not even to mention that how amazing it is that all our thoughts come from these so-called matter . But to the end, I admitted that there will still be a conflict between science and religion as they reflect our thoughts based on different mind sets, though there exists only one truth. |
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Post by sara cardenas on Jun 29, 2015 4:50:31 GMT
1. Socrates was accused by Melitus and many others and was sentenced to death for "corrupting the youth" (pg. 10,44) Mellitus argues that Socrates is the only one that corrupts the youth and "All Athenians, therefore, as it seems, make them honorable and good, except me (Socrates); but I alone corrupt them" (pg.46). He is also accused of "not believing in any Gods at all" (48). Socrates went in search to see "those who have a character of being wise" in order to show that indeed they were wiser than Socrates, but he found that the people were very fancy of themselves and not truly wise so "[he] became odious to him and to many others that were present" (33). This was the part of the beginning that lead to him being brought towards the judge and placed under the death sentence. Socrates says that he was brought "to trial, and accuse me of not
believing in the gods, from disobeying the oracle, fearing death,
and thinking myself to be wise when I am not" (51). Socrates preferred being sentenced to death than being exiled or told to stay quiet.
2. There is a conflict (for some) between science and religion because people tend to "bring God into our time and space which violates the principle that A cannot also be non-A, naturalism cannot be also supernaturalism" (Lane 32). There is "an indissoluble gap between science and spirituality and any attempt to bridge the two is a violation of the
simple principle that A is A" (33). Most people try to do that and that's why they have a conflict with science and religion. When some people have revelations (enlightenment) they believe whole heartedly that they are true and it turns into an "inspection, a political contest over religious claims" (28). People never question their revelations and since "most
individuals have no mastery of leaving their bodies, we are subject
to tremendous imprecision and tremendous speculation" (29). Chandian effect is the same as Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty. "What makes us certain that something
is indeed real is the result of our own deeply felt
subjectivity" (30).
Extra Credit Response: I agree with you Chen and I totally forgot about the discussion that Socrates had with Euthyphro in regards to what impiety and piety was, but I don't necessarily believe that him being impious was one of the reasons for why he was sentenced to death. I do agree that the conflict between science and religion is something that is as you said, undeniable for those that may be strong devotees of either perspective. I do though believe it's possible to have no conflict if maybe the person is for example a believer in deism although it would contradict the one aspect of the formation of the earth. The debate between science and religion is a very hard topic to answer.
Chen Said (5 hours ago):
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Being one of the greatest Greek philosophers ever known, Socrates was sentenced to death by consuming hemlock poison. The first reason why he was sentenced to execution was for impiety, which in How Socrates Died, is “that he did not believe in the gods recognized by the state (2).” The second reason for his trial, which ultimately led to his death sentence, was that “he has corrupted the Athenian youth by his teachings (2).” Meletus, Socrates’ accuser, states that he was teaching the youth to question the authority of the government. When asked to confess for his “wrong-doings”, Socrates neither tried to agree nor disagree to whether he acted upon his accusations.“ He prefers to stand upon his own integrity and innocence, uninfluenced by the fear of that imaginary evil, death (2).” With his death sentence imposed, Socrates accepts his fate and declines to escape his fate when begged by his fellow listeners.
2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion?
Conflict between science and religion derive from their own separate disciplines – that science is based on the observation of facts and nature, while religion is mostly relied on faith. Because people rarely question faith, they assume a higher authority (in which most cases is God) helped reveal their own truth in humanity. However, science has come to question everything about the nature of our world and anything that isn’t factual based. In The Great Mystery, it states that “Where are we has a simple answer it appear: We don’t know (13). Because there are so many unsolved mysteries that exist, there are bound to be two sides: one who looks for answers and one who believes in the spirituality that transcends it. Since science assumes that there are no immaterial forces that exist or have existed in our universe, the conflict between the two are almost undeniable for those that may be strong devotees of either perspective.
FLASH EXTRA CREDIT: WHAT IS MATTER? (just finished mini film)
"Matter is a mystery" is the sentence that was used to end the video. Indeed matter is a mystery. As it says in the book, The Great Mystery, "Matter isn’t just one thing. It
is rather a scaffolding project of many layers, each of which
reveals a different aspect of what matter can do under
differing circumstances" (5). Matter is the building blocks of everything that surrounds us. Matter is what makes every thing and just by having a rearrangement you can change what that object is.
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Post by ronaldkkh on Jun 29, 2015 4:59:08 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates was on trial and sentenced to death because he was found guilty of two charges against him- one that he corrupted the youth of Athens by his teachings, and he denied existence of Athens gods and invented new gods (2). Socrates’ philosophy was in general terms to question everything to find the truth. He questioned men who had a reputation of wisdom and demanded tireless argumentation and examination of basic ethical principles for the truth. Socrates’ philosophy was able to outmaneuver other thinkers’ of his time, so many thinkers saw him as a nuisance. The dissents of others eventually caused his execution. Socrates was given a chance to exile , but he preferred to stand upon his own integrity and innocence (2). If he were to escape after being charged, he would be breaking the law which he has supported his whole life and his loyalty to the state (65). He also did not want to continue a life of injustice, if he were to escapes to other cities, he would live his life as a ‘corrupter’, he would violate his own teachings and compacts made earlier (72), and he could no longer practice philosophy, the discourses of justice and other virtues, because he would become a violator of these (73). If Socrates were to renounce his principles, he would rather die, so he gave his life for his ways of life.
Work Cited: (The Life of Socrates, 2012), How Socrates Died Walnut: MTSAC Philosophy group, 2015 print
2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion?
There are conflicts between science and religion in some reasons. Among these reasons, the main one is the "linguistic confusion over what the term 'matter' means and what it ultimately implies" (1). There is a general perception that science erodes the foundation of religious belief that science is based on observation of nature, which is based on facts, while religion is largely based on faith, which is not entirely explainable by facts. In any science field, general consensus can be reached on most fundamental science theories. Arguments among scientists exist at the frontiers of each area, where new discoveries are being interpreted and experimented, and eventually settled by evidence. On the other hand, religious beliefs are based more on teachings originated from human history through thousands of years. Different religions can hold diverse and sometimes conflicting beliefs concerning deity, humanity and the nature, can be proven or unproven. Religions are based on intellectual consideration than on experimental discoveries. Since there is a core difference between science and religion, conflict arises.
Worked Cited: Source: Lane, David. The Great Mystery, Matter vs. Spirit. Walnut: MSAC Philosophy Group; 2014
Extra Credit: Response
I found your answer very interesting and did point out some points I failed to write in my essay. I agree with you that 'Socrates death was the direct result of the conflict between science and religion. His views were controversial and to many religious people of his era were directly insulting and defaming their long-established gods. The people viewed it as destructive to both their history and culture and sought retribution'. There is really no simple way to resolve this conflict between science and religion. People in his era generally hold faith that through revelation God has taught them absolute truth, and the absolute truth is unquestionable. On the other hand, Socrates arguments were very philosophical and logically driven, and his pupils were growing in numbers, so any compromise with the beliefs of Socrates arguments may require general athenians to reject their own religious beliefs. Very few are willing to do that, so when they were offended they were driven by emotions and could not tolerate for a consensus, as you points out. I think you really have a good point here.
7 hours ago Tyler Vigneault said:
1. Objectively, Socrates was condemned to death for not conforming to the standard religious practices of his era and country. He instead questioned the world around him in an unorthodox method and professed his hypotheses to the youth (How Socrates Died, 6). Subjectively, Socrates death was the direct result of the conflict between science and religion. His views were controversial and to many religious people of his era were directly insulting and defaming their long-established gods. The people viewed it as destructive to both their history and culture and sought retribution. The “icing on the cake” was that the youth were Socrates’ main audience and had begun to adopt his views. To Socrates, it was not a crime and in many of his defenses he seems composed and logically-driven. His accusers and persecutors both seem to be driven more by emotion and anger than any logical force. Much like described in the video “Plato’s Allegory of the Cave”, Socrates’ persecutors were much like the men shackled in caves. They had lived their lives seeing only what was in front of them and not questioning it or even being able to question why, society of this time condemned it. Because of this, they felt it natural and just to condemn Socrates to death.
2. There was and still is a conflict between science and religion because of both the current and past limits of human knowledge, the societal reliance on certainty, and the culture imposed by religion. As demonstrated in “The Limits Of Science”, the limits of the human mind are the limits of human understanding. Meaning that as humans currently are, there are tangible limits to what it can grasp and explain in this universe. The somewhat satirical comments on quantum mechanics within “The Great Mystery” (page 10), describe this dilemma in detail and provide an introduction into the rest of the book. “I think the overriding reason that many of us find the previous analogy persuasive is because we intuit or know from our own experiences that when one is in a higher state of awareness it makes the waking state look like a dismal and shadowy dream” (Lane, 27). Society often disregards these higher states of awareness or spiritual experiences as hallucinations that are created by the same parts of the brain that create dreams and settle for the “certainty” of the real world. Culture also creates a need to not question religion and is often imposed harshly by family or other societal factors. Those who question are labeled as heretics and cause grief and offense to those who are religious.
Tyler Vigneault
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Post by ggonzalez170 on Jun 29, 2015 5:10:40 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates was on trial for his life and had two charges against him. The charges against Socrates were that he did not believe in gods that were recognized by the states and the other one was that he was corrupting the young people of Athens with his teachings. Socrates was ordered to drink the poisonous Hemlock and die. Socrates had never been in any trouble or had to appear in court in his 70 years of life. This trial was the first time he had been involved in legal troubles. He defended himself and was not able to free himself from the accusations. In the book “How Socrates Died” the book states: "The Apologia" represents Socrates on trial for his life, undertaking his own defense, though unaccustomed to the language of the courts, the occasion being, as he says, the first time he has ever been before a court of justice, though seventy years of age”(2). On the last day before his death his friends visit him and he talks to them and tells them that the soul is immortal. One of his friends even talks to him about escaping and Socrates does not want to escape. Socrates in my eyes was a very courageous man and a very strong man. He said he would take his punishment because man had to obey the law and that is what he did even though it cost him his life. He drank the poison and died while he was walking and talking to the people that accompanied him. I think that he died with dignity and he died because he stood up for what he believed in not because he was a criminal. He knew that if he stood up for his beliefs death would be his fate and he decided to stand up to what he believed and his punishment was death in the end.
2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion?
Maybe there is conflict between science and religion because people misunderstand the meanings of certain things. According to the video “The Limits of Science: Illuminated Ideas in 56 seconds” it is stated that the limits to understanding some scientific matters is limited to our skull. This means that some people view things religions or science with a certain point of view. Since our limits to understanding things according to the video is limited to our skull this might mean that the point of view that one person has can be very different that the view of another. In the book “Matter vs. Spirit” it is stated that “Right then, another professor chimed in and said, “Oh, Dave, that guy who just verbally assaulted you is a fundamentalist Christian and he thinks that your publication contradicts the Bible and insults his religion”(2). It is stated that the Christian professor was offended by the magazine “Plato’s Cave”. Maybe the offended Christian professor didn’t really understand what was written in the magazine and did not give Professor Lane the opportunity to explain what the article was about. While I was reading the book I came upon the part where it says that the conflict primarily comes from linguistic confusion that arises because of what matter implies to some people. To some people matter might a thing that is dark, gray or nothing. As stated in “The Great Mystery” is that our understanding of matter is really distorted and that matter and spirit are opposites. The problem is that we really don’t understand the real meaning of “matter”. We usually don’t have a great understanding or the most recent definition to the word. When people that have different views of life, religion and science and just observe and don’t take the time to ask questions people tend to get offended and conflict arises. I think that not knowing what something means or not having the same meanings of words or ideas can cause conflict in anything especially between religion and science.
FLASH EXTRA CREDIT: WHAT IS MATTER? (just finished mini film)
Matter is the four forces of the universe it is gravity, electromagnetism, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force. Matter is not just one thing it is a combination of things. It is what creates a whole person, a whole building or the whole planet that we live on. Matter is everything together atoms, molecules, electrons our body is made up of matter. Our body has a soul, brain and consciousness, molecules and atoms. We are all made up of matter but that does not make our bodies any less important. Everything is made up of things that are smaller and does not make the larger thing weaker. So I think that when a person says we are made up of matter we shouldn’t feel that we are less important. It just means that something needs something else to function. In humans our body would not function without our brain and our brain would not function without a soul or free will. I think that the videos showed me that every person has a different perception or views of things. In the video the example with the app on the apple product shows that what one person sees or hears isn’t always going to be seen or heard by others. In the video professor Lane didn’t hear the noises from the app and when tested in class every student in the class except one other person didn’t hear the loud noise from the app. I think that this might be an example on how people see matter not every person will see the things the way one certain person sees it. Our bodies are made up of different things we need our brain and soul to function one cannot work without the other.
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Post by ronaldkkh on Jun 29, 2015 5:23:12 GMT
Extra Credit: Response I found your answer very interesting and did point out some points I failed to write in my essay. I agree with you that 'Socrates death was the direct result of the conflict between science and religion. His views were controversial and to many religious people of his era were directly insulting and defaming their long-established gods. The people viewed it as destructive to both their history and culture and sought retribution'. There is really no simple way to resolve this conflict between science and religion. People in his era generally hold faith that through revelation God has taught them absolute truth, and the absolute truth is unquestionable. On the other hand, Socrates arguments were very philosophical and logically driven, and his pupils were growing in numbers, so any compromise with the beliefs of Socrates arguments may require general athenians to reject their own religious beliefs. Very few are willing to do that, so when they were offended they were driven by emotions and could not tolerate for a consensus, as you points out. I think you really have a good point here. 1. Objectively, Socrates was condemned to death for not conforming to the standard religious practices of his era and country. He instead questioned the world around him in an unorthodox method and professed his hypotheses to the youth (How Socrates Died, 6). Subjectively, Socrates death was the direct result of the conflict between science and religion. His views were controversial and to many religious people of his era were directly insulting and defaming their long-established gods. The people viewed it as destructive to both their history and culture and sought retribution. The “icing on the cake” was that the youth were Socrates’ main audience and had begun to adopt his views. To Socrates, it was not a crime and in many of his defenses he seems composed and logically-driven. His accusers and persecutors both seem to be driven more by emotion and anger than any logical force. Much like described in the video “Plato’s Allegory of the Cave”, Socrates’ persecutors were much like the men shackled in caves. They had lived their lives seeing only what was in front of them and not questioning it or even being able to question why, society of this time condemned it. Because of this, they felt it natural and just to condemn Socrates to death. 2. There was and still is a conflict between science and religion because of both the current and past limits of human knowledge, the societal reliance on certainty, and the culture imposed by religion. As demonstrated in “The Limits Of Science”, the limits of the human mind are the limits of human understanding. Meaning that as humans currently are, there are tangible limits to what it can grasp and explain in this universe. The somewhat satirical comments on quantum mechanics within “The Great Mystery” (page 10), describe this dilemma in detail and provide an introduction into the rest of the book. “I think the overriding reason that many of us find the previous analogy persuasive is because we intuit or know from our own experiences that when one is in a higher state of awareness it makes the waking state look like a dismal and shadowy dream” (Lane, 27). Society often disregards these higher states of awareness or spiritual experiences as hallucinations that are created by the same parts of the brain that create dreams and settle for the “certainty” of the real world. Culture also creates a need to not question religion and is often imposed harshly by family or other societal factors. Those who question are labeled as heretics and cause grief and offense to those who are religious. Tyler Vigneault |
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Post by marie ashley siy on Jun 29, 2015 6:44:17 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates was sentenced to death for two reasons, one for being accused of “corrupting Athenian youth”, and the other reason being charged with impiety due to him refusing the gods of the state. “I (Socrates) invent new gods and deny the existence of old ones.” (How Socrates Died, 6) by this quote he was charged of impiety with this accusation. Socrates tried to conform with the state’s gods and he did acknowledge that “that he believes in God more than he fears man” (2)
Despite that he did not acknowledge the Athenian gods despite the consequences. He chose death rather over not living by his own principles. By not conforming with the standards of the Athenians, he sealed away his fate and wholeheartedly accepted it. Socrates also stated that he did not aim to corrupt youth, “But if I (Socrates) corrupt them undesignedly.” (39), accepting his consequences. In his end, Socrates carried out his death sentence and ended his own life by consuming a lethal poison called hemlock.
2. Why does science and religion conflict?
In “Matter vs. Spirit” the conflicts between science and religion “stems from a linguistic confusion over what matter means” (Lane 1). Why these two often conflict is due to the way people use religion to cope with the unknown. People always want to find a reason of why the mysterious things in life happen and with that they use religion as reasoning to why it happens. Religion is the absence of certain parts of science, and adding in God as an acceptable form of creation. In the film “The Emergence of Rationality” Anatagoras speaks out that the sun is in fact “not a god or a person, it is a mass of red hot stone”. Because he spoke out against “The Beautiful Apollo” the most logical thing to do to him was to in fact, banish him from Athens. Forever. This is a clear example of science and religion conflicting and causing dispute. The lack of understanding in differences between the two is often why these two clash.
EXTRA CREDIT: WHAT IS MATTER?
In the film “What is Matter”, it is stated the origin of the name of “matter” is “mother”. I find the it’s origin name quite fitting as such because, we all are born into the word with the same methods. We begin from a mother and our own mother is also made out of matter herself. Just like an atom we too are made out of smaller units that make us what we are. We start, live and end our lives as matter and even interact with matter to assist us in living our daily lives. In the end we, everything that has mass and occupies space is matter. Nothing more and nothing less. Which is all that matters.
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reed
New Member
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Post by reed on Jun 29, 2015 6:46:25 GMT
Week 1 Questions
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death?
Socrates pioneered the Socratic method, encouraged youths to develop their critical thinking skills, and, unfortunately, seemed to oppose democracy; in a time where Athens was attempting to consolidate power after its defeat against Sparta, many interpreted his brand of philosophy as increasingly politically driven. Additionally, Socrates openly asked people questions wherein he demonstrated a lack of wisdom in the political and social elite, which undoubtedly and dually damaged his reputation and further invited scrutiny from the Athenian elite. Perhaps most relevantly, his teachings were deemed to be contesting the existence of God as religion defines him, which was the final straw considering the church enjoyed a symbiotic relationship with the government in 399 B.C. Socrates met his fate at the hands of hemlock, a reliably potent poison.
2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion?
The simplest explanation is that science attempts to map the universe as a series of equations and discreet integers, while religion says that some things cannot be explained. However, specificity is critical here; while science maintains that there are forces we cannot manipulate, such as gravity, magnetism, and time, religion attributes those forces to the powers of God, and creation. This is not technically a conflict at this point to more reasonable persons, who acknowledge that there could be beings of a higher dimension who are capable of manipulating these forces, hence being a “God.” It is important to note, however, that another possible interpretation from a scientific lens is that science can only provide manipulable information for so many of the possible forces in the universe; at some point, it is hypothetically probable that we will encounter some power or universal mechanism that humans cannot directly interact with, possibly justifying the use of the term “God” in reference to this mechanism.
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Post by otaleb on Jun 29, 2015 7:56:49 GMT
Week #1 1) Why was Socrates sentenced to death? Socrates was put through trial and a death sentence under the following accusations: "He did not believe in the the gods recognized by the state" and "he had corrupted the Athenian youth by his teachings." (2). Socrates urged his students to refrain from being blind followers of any subject. His passion for advocating a self-directed lifestyle was threatening to Athenian politicians. Meletus was the largest advocate for Socrates being put to death. (4) Socrates had the opportunity to accept an exile as a substitute for death, but he wanted to teach his students to embrace death (2). Socrates knew he would always be considered the "corrupter" regardless of the city he resided (72). Socrates' ability to challenge the deep rooted beliefs of his society is the reason he is a prominent figure in philosophical studies today. (2014). How socrates died: A selection from plato's dialogues. MSAC Philosophy Group. Retrieved from www.neuralsurfer.com2) Why is there conflict (for some) between science and religion? Science is the study of every aspect of the world through observations and experimentation. It provides a practical answer for a variety of questions we face throughout our life. Some view science as a conflicting study because it negates their religious beliefs. Science is an explanation of the "perceivable" aspects of life while religion provides an explanation which could never be rationalized through scientific study. "The Great Mystery" describes science as "a record of how man achieved such acclimations and how, in turn, such new insights transformed his understanding of how the universe actually works." (10). Studies such as evolution seem to challenge the validity of certain religions. Which is what abstains certain followers from delving into scientific study. Worked Cited: Source: Lane, David. The Great Mystery, Matter vs. Spirit. Walnut: MSAC Philosophy Group; 2014 |
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Post by otaleb on Jun 29, 2015 8:02:37 GMT
Jun 26, 2015 14:03:42 GMT -7 aperez119 said:Week #1 Questions
1.Socrates was sentenced to death for not believing in the gods recognized by the state. Socrates was questioning religion and in such a society was deemed highly offensive and unforgivable, however Socrates was merely pursing knowledge and try to expand not only his mind but that of the state which he felt such an obligation to he would be willing to sacrifice his life. Another charge on Socrates was he was corrupting the youth. Socrates teaching was viewed as being against society’s point of views. Although this was his intentions, Socrates was not trying corrupt the youth rather he was trying to expand and make others question ideology and to not just accept what was told to them.” I have always had a great interest in religious questions, and now, as he charges me with rash imaginations and innovations in religion”. (P.8). In the end, Socrates was give poisonous hemlock as his punishment for so called crimes against the state.
2.The reason for conflicts within sciences and religions are based on individual’s beliefs, perceptions and misunderstandings of such topics. One of the core ideals of any religion is faith. A religious person who has lost a loved one or had a horrible tragedy occur in their life will most of the time respond “It is god’s will” or “Everything happens for a reason”. A religious person accepts that an omnipotent being is in control, on the other hand, a logical person would more likely reason that the outcome could have been altered by changing one or many prior actions that led up to the final result. While these thought processes are not constant, meaning a religious person can easily comprehend logical reasoning or vise versa, when two people debate on such topics most people tend to lean more towards one way of thinking or the other. For us to understand either thought process or belief and make those connections we must understand both side and there lies the problem as the book matter vs. spirit states “Our evolution has bounded what we can and cannot know about the world around us. Because of this our brains are not well adapted to understand either the very large or the very small.”(P.10). Since science and religion are so massive a field to try and understand, we has humans will never fully comprehend these subjects which will lead to confusion and misunderstands and in turn conflict.Extra Credit Response: I completely agree with your perspective on conflicts between science and religion. We will never have a solid answer for every aspect of life. Argument is pointless when there is potential to make a contribution to scientific research! |
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Post by jmagallon on Jun 30, 2015 9:17:04 GMT
1. Why was Socrates sentenced to death? Socrates was living in a time when questioning the nor o life was frowned upon. He would even teach his way of thinking to those who came looking. Such as Euthyphro who accused his father of murder. At one point Socrates is comparing Euthyphro’s actions to those of Zeus. He tells him, “. . . in thus chastising your father you may very likely be doing what is agreeable to Zeus but disagreeable to Cronos or Uranus,. . .(pg. 13).” The more and more they talk Socrates may be making Euthyphro second guess his murder accusation towards his father. This conversation between the two gives us an insight into why Meletus accuses Socrates of impiety for not believing in their gods and sentences him to death (pg. 9). Socrates is also accused of teaching the youth to think for themselves and not follow the so called gods in a grove called Academus. In my opinion Socrates meant no harm and never forced anyone to follow what he taught but it was in his teachings that made him dangerous. He had a certain way with words that made him easily understood as to why question the gods. Finally he is found guilty and despite the effort from his friends of talking him out of certain death he continued with his sentence of death by drinking poison. 2. Why is there a conflict (for some) between science and religion? Science is field that intentionally wants to be disproven. By trial and error one will find a specific finding to be true or false. An example I would like to use is Sir Isaac Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation. The story goes that Newton came up his law of universal gravitation when an apple fall of a tree and onto his head. This law can be proven by cutting an apple its tree and allowing it to fall. Meaning that every time the apple is removed from its attachment it will always fall down due to gravity. Of course there are other ways to demonstrate gravity, but the apple falling from a tree is used because it is a simple one that most can understand and remember it. The foundation of science is has been built on the ability to prove it true, so that is can be taught and replicated. Religion on the other hand is not open to the idea of being disproved. In fact most followers of religion such as those of the Catholic or Christian Church do not want their religion to be disproven. Their belief is that since the words are in the bible that makes them true, and that they do not need to be proven. All one needs is faith for the words to be true. This makes it subject that cannot be proven by the law of nature. In the end science and religion cannot go hand in hand because they do not relate. One is fact based and the other is supernatural. Doing so would contradict each other as stated in the following quote, “. . . God is beyond nature—super nature, or supernatural—and therefore cannot be explained by natural causes (pg. 32).” So, it’s okay to have both so long as one doesn’t start stepping because they are separate beliefs. Sources: How Socrates Died (MSAC Philosophy Group) The Great Mystery: Matter vs. Spirit (David Christopher Lane)
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Post by Gajinda Fonseka on Jul 4, 2015 15:11:38 GMT
Week 2 Question 1:
Philosophy can be defined as the study of knowledge, reality and existence. Similarly, physics and the general understanding of the universe contributes to further study of philosophy. The book Quantum Weirdness deals with the subject of Quantum Physics, a branch off physics that examine how the universe works and what constitutes reality. In this way, it is plain that physics examines and researches what philosophy analyzes and postulates. The findings of physics alters philosophy and the way that philosophy is studied. For example, in ancient times, 'reality' and 'existence' were thought to be connected to gods while in this age it is thought to be forces like 'electromagnetism', 'gravity' etc (Is The Universe Really Made Up Of Rubber Bands?). Furthermore, in Quantum Weirdness it is stated that 'the observer alters the observed' which is further fleshed out to conclude that objective reality cannot be truly known. Reality though is also one area of major interest in physics. It can be seen how this discovery influence both the understanding of the universe and philosophy. It is one of many ways in which philosophy and physics are interrelated and correlated.
Week 2 Question 2:
Eliminative Materialism is the a general method of used to attempt to explain phenomena. As said by the video 'Eliminative Materialism (Part One)' whenever mathematics cannot explain the phenomena, one turns to physics, then to chemistry, then to biology, then to psychology and then to sociology. In essence it is the way of applying different fields to the same phenomena one after the other if the previous cannot suitably explain the phenomena. This method has been used and is seen throughout history. In Eliminative Materialism (Part Two) three examples of it is shown. Lightning was once attributed to the Norse God Thor but is now explained by electronically charged particles. Diseases were once attributed to spirits but is now attributed to bacterias and viruses. Ghosts have now been replaced by the study of anatomy and the nervous system. Eliminative Materialism can be said to be the process by which phenomena is turned from an object of mysticism to an researched and then (mostly) understood scientific subject.
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Post by nicole on Jul 5, 2015 17:56:05 GMT
Week 2 Why is understanding physics and the general rules of the universe so important in doing philosophy? Understanding physics and the general rules of the universe are so important in doing philosophy because understanding physics gives way to philosophical ideas. Since philosophy is the study of knowledge, reality, and existence, it would be helpful to know and understand physics, mathematics, biology, sociology, and more. “Mental breakthroughs lead to revolutions in scientific thought” (pg 2, Quantum Weirdness). With philosophy a lot of the time is spent questioning things; by questioning, individuals find answers which leads to innovation, learning, and growth of knowledge. Understanding physics of a general rules of the universe come hand-in-hand with philosophy. Without the ability to understand one, understanding the other will be difficult. By understanding physics and the general rules of the universe this allows us to examine and research more of what is going on around us. Philosophy however, allows us to analyze what we have researched. What is eliminative materialism? Eliminative materialism is to understand something in-depth through the means of science and math instead of the commonsense knowledge. As said in “Eliminative Materialism” part one, “if the phenomenon cannot be explained fully and comprehensively by mathematics then one turns to physics, if that too is incomplete then to chemistry, then to biology, then to psychology, then to sociology.” In the end, if none of them can be explained by any of these subjects, then it is put that God did it. Eliminative materialism replaces the old idea with the new. For example, instead of Thor, the thunder God, we talk instead of electrical magnetic currents. Instead of spirits causing diseases, we turn to bacteria and instead of tiny ghosts pulling our muscles every which way we talk about a central nervous system. (Eliminative Materialism part 2). Eliminative materialism influences the way we think about everything but ourselves (Eliminative Materialism part 3). Week 2 Question 1: Philosophy can be defined as the study of knowledge, reality and existence. Similarly, physics and the general understanding of the universe contributes to further study of philosophy. The book Quantum Weirdness deals with the subject of Quantum Physics, a branch off physics that examine how the universe works and what constitutes reality. In this way, it is plain that physics examines and researches what philosophy analyzes and postulates. The findings of physics alters philosophy and the way that philosophy is studied. For example, in ancient times, 'reality' and 'existence' were thought to be connected to gods while in this age it is thought to be forces like 'electromagnetism', 'gravity' etc (Is The Universe Really Made Up Of Rubber Bands?). Furthermore, in Quantum Weirdness it is stated that 'the observer alters the observed' which is further fleshed out to conclude that objective reality cannot be truly known. Reality though is also one area of major interest in physics. It can be seen how this discovery influence both the understanding of the universe and philosophy. It is one of many ways in which philosophy and physics are interrelated and correlated. Week 2 Question 2: Eliminative Materialism is the a general method of used to attempt to explain phenomena. As said by the video 'Eliminative Materialism (Part One)' whenever mathematics cannot explain the phenomena, one turns to physics, then to chemistry, then to biology, then to psychology and then to sociology. In essence it is the way of applying different fields to the same phenomena one after the other if the previous cannot suitably explain the phenomena. This method has been used and is seen throughout history. In Eliminative Materialism (Part Two) three examples of it is shown. Lightning was once attributed to the Norse God Thor but is now explained by electronically charged particles. Diseases were once attributed to spirits but is now attributed to bacterias and viruses. Ghosts have now been replaced by the study of anatomy and the nervous system. Eliminative Materialism can be said to be the process by which phenomena is turned from an object of mysticism to an researched and then (mostly) understood scientific subject. Extra credit: I agree with Gajinda when it is said that "physics examines and researches what philosophy analyzes" in the first question about understanding physics. I also agree with the second question when saying that "it is the way of applying different fields to the same phenomena" not only to explain the phenomena but to get different perspective as well. |
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